a Jig is just a Tool

Post info here on welding jigs and fixtures.
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gww25
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SELF INTRODUCTION: I'm just an old chopper builders who still dabbles in the craft and I hope that I can contribute something to the discussions as time goes by. Most of you already know that I started the Chopper Builders Handbook site so you're probably already familiar with my philosophy on choppers and chopper work.
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a Jig is just a Tool

Post by gww25 »

I hope that as people come to the site they keep in mind that jigs and fixtures are just tools of the trade. Sometimes we build something that is relatively permanant in nature and other times we hack something together for a specific situation. When I was coming up most of the old greybeards I worked with didn't use anything at all and just layed everything out on the shop floor, having friends and onlookers stand on the varous pieces of tubing shimmed up with 2x4's or just held in some poor guys bare hands. It all seemed to work out in the end. Just keep in mind that everybody will develop their own unique ways of doing things and having a fancy welding jig doesn't means that you can build good frames or forks. Often times it's a persons techniques rather than his or her tools that determines the final product.
oklascott
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SELF INTRODUCTION: my name is scott younger and i live in wann oklahoma. wann is in northeast oklahoma right on the kansas state line. i just recently bought a copy of the chopper builders handbook, the one about building girder forks. i have just finished chopping up a two thousand one kawasaki elminator that i picked up at a garage sale cheap. i am currently buying a building to open my own custom fabrication shop. i enjoy working on bikes and building hot rods, ihave a 1927 all steel ford t bucket with a uncut bed. i have ready to begin as my next bike project a rigid harley frame setup for either a evo or shovel. gonna make the tins and tank myself on the english wheel. hopefully i will get aproved.

Re: a Jig is just a Tool

Post by oklascott »

i agree whole heartedly very well put.
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Re: a Jig is just a Tool

Post by hansgoudzwaard »

Good to see you here.

I also laid out some lines on the garage floor. Worked fine.
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Re: a Jig is just a Tool

Post by Jeff L »

I have to agree with that too....very well put,they aren't needed as said.I did wind up making some temp jigs to hold my shit together.I had to have one of my sons hold the neck while I tacked it on.Not
Using a jig for the most part, I think I was a little more mindful about not spending to much time welding in a given area.I now have a couple more bikes in line to get cut up, & was really considering building a jig, but this frame came out fine.So I will just do the same on the others.....lots of measuring & taking my time.....
Changing the shape of the Earth...1 bucket at a time...IUOE local 825 top of the food chain
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Maxthegardener
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Re: a Jig is just a Tool

Post by Maxthegardener »

I intend going high tech.....tube benders jigs etc just the way I like to work....
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Maz
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Re: a Jig is just a Tool

Post by Maz »

I agree, but I use jigs because I have limited space to work and it keeps stuff neat and tidy...

Maz xx
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gww25
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SELF INTRODUCTION: I'm just an old chopper builders who still dabbles in the craft and I hope that I can contribute something to the discussions as time goes by. Most of you already know that I started the Chopper Builders Handbook site so you're probably already familiar with my philosophy on choppers and chopper work.
Location: Murphy, Texas
Contact:

Re: a Jig is just a Tool

Post by gww25 »

Keep in mind that there are two distinct schools of thought about jigs and fixtures. One school submits to the concept that a jig or a fixture is merely a 'positioning' device and does not rigidly hold the tubing. The other school adheres to the concept of having the jig or fixture clamp all of the parts rigidly so they are held in place solidly with no posibility of movement. I've used both techniques and perfer the first school of thought where the person doing the welding controls any possible movement the parts may experience. Both methods work if the welder is doing his or her job but in the hands of a less experienced welder the second school of thought presents some problems. Unfortunately even the most solid and rigid of jigs doesn't actually prevent metal from shifting and moving but you don't see this displacement until you take the part out of a rigid holding fixture type of jig. It is not uncommon in large fab shops that use rigid type jigs to see people using deadblow hammers to get a part free from a fixture since they have so much built up stress. You'll hear a big 'sprong' sound as the part pops free and moves into the shape it wants to be in to equalize the stress it was under. I can go on and on about this problem but don't have the time right now but it's something that really needs to be expanded upon someday.
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Re: a Jig is just a Tool

Post by rudog »

gww25 wrote:Keep in mind ... but it's something that really needs to be expanded upon someday.
I patiently wait for any tidbits of knowledge/experience.

(which is the "chompin-at-the-bit" smiley)
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SELF INTRODUCTION: Just a grumpy old welder/chopperhedd Spent far too much time burning wire for a living but hey, one does have to pay the bills ya know! Worked shipyards and fab shops welding about everything stick, mig, tig and sub-arc. Both hand held and automated. Worked weekends in a Honda shop in the late 70's and in an all bike shop in the late 80's thru early 90's. Likes? Choppers, rock-N-roll, NRA and boobies! Dislikes? PC, VD, AARP & NAACP I'm pro business and totally against big government interfering in our daily lives. Live free or die baby and you'll have to pry it from my cold dead hands. Do love little children and puppies though. Both of them can turn me into a 300lb. old softie!
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Re: a Jig is just a Tool

Post by rakeNtrail »

Well put. A jig will not compensate for improper technique either.
Just because your frame is in a jig doesn't mean you can just weld the piss out of
it and everything will still come out straight and true. Weld it wrong and you can actually
bend your fixture from the weld stress. Something to think about.
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Maz
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SELF INTRODUCTION: The Biker Mistress, Blonde, blue eyes, English Lady bike builder and previously a member of the CBH. I run my own custom bike and chop shop (MazChopz) on the south west coast of England. I have been building custom bikes for over 35 years and have built some 130 bikes so far. I am happy to share my knowledge and "expertise" and also hope to learn from the other forum members. I look forward to meeting up with many of my friends from the CBH and especially to seeing how Dan got on with his Knuck.
Location: South West Coast of England
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Re: a Jig is just a Tool

Post by Maz »

Some very good points and advice there guys - I always thought of my jigs as a neat and functional way of holding things still so I can position them properly and check for alignment etc - my jigs are certainly too lightweight to hold things so rigid they won't "pull" during welding...it is my responsibility as the one holding the welding torch to make sure I weld it properly.....a jig is as you so rightly say, just another tool..... :think: but at least I painted mine to make them look pretty :dance: :doh: :hand: :banana-dance: :obscene-drinkingcheers:

Maz xx
Blonde, blue eyes, English Custom Bike builder and Biker Mistress!!!

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rakeNtrail
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SELF INTRODUCTION: Just a grumpy old welder/chopperhedd Spent far too much time burning wire for a living but hey, one does have to pay the bills ya know! Worked shipyards and fab shops welding about everything stick, mig, tig and sub-arc. Both hand held and automated. Worked weekends in a Honda shop in the late 70's and in an all bike shop in the late 80's thru early 90's. Likes? Choppers, rock-N-roll, NRA and boobies! Dislikes? PC, VD, AARP & NAACP I'm pro business and totally against big government interfering in our daily lives. Live free or die baby and you'll have to pry it from my cold dead hands. Do love little children and puppies though. Both of them can turn me into a 300lb. old softie!
Location: North By God Carolina

Re: a Jig is just a Tool

Post by rakeNtrail »

Maz wrote: but at least I painted mine to make them look pretty :dance: :doh: :hand: :banana-dance: :obscene-drinkingcheers:

Maz xx
Sometimes I wrap my tool in pretty colored latex! :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling:
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Maz
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SELF INTRODUCTION: The Biker Mistress, Blonde, blue eyes, English Lady bike builder and previously a member of the CBH. I run my own custom bike and chop shop (MazChopz) on the south west coast of England. I have been building custom bikes for over 35 years and have built some 130 bikes so far. I am happy to share my knowledge and "expertise" and also hope to learn from the other forum members. I look forward to meeting up with many of my friends from the CBH and especially to seeing how Dan got on with his Knuck.
Location: South West Coast of England
Contact:

Re: a Jig is just a Tool

Post by Maz »

speechless :naughty: :snooty: :hand: :shifty: :text-goodpost:

Maz xx
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Re: a Jig is just a Tool

Post by krymis »

gary,

can you teach me about jig building? I want to know all there is to know about it. How many different jigs can you build and what would the approximate cost be to build each one? :mrgreen:
Also frontend jigs...i saw this one cd that the old gray haired guy used wood and channel steel. What a loser. :auto-dirtbike:
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Re: a Jig is just a Tool

Post by chopsmitty »

My learing experience with jigs and weld quality/proceedure - I built a frame on a very rigid jig and sent it to powdercoat. The heat from the powdercoat cycles actually moved some of the tubing around - it actually 'stress relieved' my frame and made evident my failure to follow proper welding technique. I had to redo that frame and have stuck to the recommended techniques of tubular welding ever since. Now my frame neck jig is pretty simple and not real rigid at all and seems to work well for me.
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Maxthegardener
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SELF INTRODUCTION: Name is Max living in scotland ,and building my first bike, Which is derived from a buellM2 Cyclone..Started with an engine and a Drop seat frame wich was made to my spec by a more experienced builder. would like to learn more about the skills and techniques required to build a frame so I value being a member here...Cheers Max
Location: Angus, Scotland

Re: a Jig is just a Tool

Post by Maxthegardener »

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