noteson trike building
Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:24 pm
notes on trike drive trains
by gearhead1951 » Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:35 am
some fwd cars have the diff secured by two end bells bolted to the xmission case , these contain the outer bearing races for the diff . This type of construction has a cover that allows the diff to be removed after the ends have been removed .
Chrysler products are where I usually find these . The ones I am familiar with have the end bells made of aluminum .
Make up new end bells to include the internal bearings for the axles to turn on plus a journal for external bearings for the housing to turn on in the frame . The new end bells ARE the housing and are bolted to the diff thru the holes the ring gear was attached at and support the ends of the diff by the bearing journals (minus bearings)
fwd front wheel bearings work well for the external part . you can use the steering knuckle as is to support the diff this way
You can make the housing with a flange to bolt a sprocket to or build it so the sprocket is captured by one of the new end bells against the diff flange!
If you use all sealed bearings you might not need oil seals , But I would include them anyway
If you have the complete engine/drive train package from a fwd car you could trike it in a different way by separating the trans from the engine complete with the fly wheel , as you create the frame build a plate to bolt the trans to that incorporates a shaft and bearing the carry the fly wheel and clutch on the one side and a sprocket on the other !
Set the engine in place across the frame . with the engine directly in front of the trans and placed as far forward as you wish you then need a jackshaft to connect the engine to the trans !
To clarify , the trans is moved fron the end of the crank to a new position behind the engine with the fly wheel and clutch attached and the fly wheel end now on the timing side of the engine !
Chain drive from the crank to a jack shaft and also form the jack shaft to the trans input shaft !
You can separate the engine and transaxle as far as you wish and use the original irs if you choose but you WILL have to adjust the length of the half shafts (really not that difficult)
If any one has questions I will happily reply !
Bob (Gearhead) KingIgnorance is curable with education , Stupidity is terminal !gearhead1951
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Re: notes on trike drive trains
by Maz » Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:38 pm
Thanks Bob for posting a full version of the advice you gave me - I think it will be of great value to many trike builders
Maz xxBlonde, blue eyes, English Biker Mistress - how's that for scary????
Maz
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Re: notes on trike drive trains
by gearhead1951 » Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:09 am
A few different posts I been followin' gave me this idea !
If you have a relativly large displacement unit construction bike engine you want to trike , consider usin' a fwd cars xmission !
Gut the bikes trans and have a shaft machined to fit the case that will take the original bike clutch on one end and a sprocket on the other , this shaft is to be supported by the original case bearing on the input side and a new plate that bolts on in place of the original on the other end , This is your jack shaft !
Now you can either modify the trans to remove the cast in bell housing and create new mounting points for it or not as you wish , but the positioning of the trans can allow either a traditional trike configuration or a bike/hack look (in racin' circles this is known as a "worm")!
In any case you will have to deal with the "H" pattern automotive shift or go with an automatic trans , each has its Pros and Cons !
The best things about this setup is that you can "tune" the engine to the trans and wheel sizes by playin' with the sprocket sizes and if you later wish to use the bike engine in a 2 wheeler the original trans has not been damaged and can be returned to stock spec easily !
Ignorance is curable with education , Stupidity is terminal !gearhead1951
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Posts: 356
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:55 am
Location: Greenock , Scotland Top
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Re: notes on trike drive trains
by budoka » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:21 am
hmmm, definitely food for thought. if i were in the States, you would probably have just cost me a trip to the junkyard (or backyard, since i *still* have a few cars sitting around at my old man's place, LOL).
i really do have to start researching the regs here related to trikes. you guys are gonna make me build one yet.
-dan-experience is a wonderful thing. It enables you to recognize a mistake when you make it again.
http://knuckleheadsummer.blogspot.com/
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Re: notes on trike drive trains
by oadamo » Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:36 am
think this is what your on about, i dont this a few years back when i fitted a cbr1000 engine into a small car but the diff setup could be used on a trike easy. it didnt look pretty but it worked and never broke if i had a lathe then and a miller i could of done a lot better job of it.
adam
oadamo
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Re: notes on trike drive trains
by gearhead1951 » Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:25 pm
Yeah , thats it !!Ignorance is curable with education , Stupidity is terminal !gearhead1951
Builder
Posts: 356
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:55 am
Location: Greenock , Scotland Top
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Re: notes on trike drive trains
by gearhead1951 » Mon Apr 04, 2011 4:32 am
Another thing to consider is to run yer brakes "inboard" (close up to yer diff) ! This a good idea for ridgid or sprung because of the amount of weight it removes from the ends of the axles !! Ignorance is curable with education , Stupidity is terminal !gearhead1951
Builder
Posts: 356
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:55 am
Location: Greenock , Scotland Top
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: notes on trike drive trains
by Yona » Thu May 26, 2011 9:43 am
3 Series BMW's have a nice IRS setup ...aluminum center and you could use some tube A-arms for small car...mount the diff solid and mate the trans to the diff with a u-joint ...or CV....doing the metalwork on a Austin Healey 3000 MkII and the garage across the yard has some for sale for $150.00 each...would like to do a VTX1600...LOLDon't poke a bear with a short stick!
I.D.G.A.F.H.T.D.I.A.O.C.C.
I only work on scoots I like,When I feel like it,If it pays enough!
I hear ya'll have 2 village idiots, ..where's the other one?
If ya get a s#@t sandwich.......just eat the crust!!
Yona
Contributor
Posts: 709
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:20 am
Location: Baja Georgia-Jax,Fla Top
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I couldn't get the pics to transfer , but I thought this might be worth savin' !!
by gearhead1951 » Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:35 am
some fwd cars have the diff secured by two end bells bolted to the xmission case , these contain the outer bearing races for the diff . This type of construction has a cover that allows the diff to be removed after the ends have been removed .
Chrysler products are where I usually find these . The ones I am familiar with have the end bells made of aluminum .
Make up new end bells to include the internal bearings for the axles to turn on plus a journal for external bearings for the housing to turn on in the frame . The new end bells ARE the housing and are bolted to the diff thru the holes the ring gear was attached at and support the ends of the diff by the bearing journals (minus bearings)
fwd front wheel bearings work well for the external part . you can use the steering knuckle as is to support the diff this way
You can make the housing with a flange to bolt a sprocket to or build it so the sprocket is captured by one of the new end bells against the diff flange!
If you use all sealed bearings you might not need oil seals , But I would include them anyway
If you have the complete engine/drive train package from a fwd car you could trike it in a different way by separating the trans from the engine complete with the fly wheel , as you create the frame build a plate to bolt the trans to that incorporates a shaft and bearing the carry the fly wheel and clutch on the one side and a sprocket on the other !
Set the engine in place across the frame . with the engine directly in front of the trans and placed as far forward as you wish you then need a jackshaft to connect the engine to the trans !
To clarify , the trans is moved fron the end of the crank to a new position behind the engine with the fly wheel and clutch attached and the fly wheel end now on the timing side of the engine !
Chain drive from the crank to a jack shaft and also form the jack shaft to the trans input shaft !
You can separate the engine and transaxle as far as you wish and use the original irs if you choose but you WILL have to adjust the length of the half shafts (really not that difficult)
If any one has questions I will happily reply !
Bob (Gearhead) KingIgnorance is curable with education , Stupidity is terminal !gearhead1951
Builder
Posts: 356
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:55 am
Location: Greenock , Scotland Top
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: notes on trike drive trains
by Maz » Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:38 pm
Thanks Bob for posting a full version of the advice you gave me - I think it will be of great value to many trike builders
Maz xxBlonde, blue eyes, English Biker Mistress - how's that for scary????
Maz
I need a life
Posts: 2294
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 3:22 pm
Location: South West England, UK
Website Top
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: notes on trike drive trains
by gearhead1951 » Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:09 am
A few different posts I been followin' gave me this idea !
If you have a relativly large displacement unit construction bike engine you want to trike , consider usin' a fwd cars xmission !
Gut the bikes trans and have a shaft machined to fit the case that will take the original bike clutch on one end and a sprocket on the other , this shaft is to be supported by the original case bearing on the input side and a new plate that bolts on in place of the original on the other end , This is your jack shaft !
Now you can either modify the trans to remove the cast in bell housing and create new mounting points for it or not as you wish , but the positioning of the trans can allow either a traditional trike configuration or a bike/hack look (in racin' circles this is known as a "worm")!
In any case you will have to deal with the "H" pattern automotive shift or go with an automatic trans , each has its Pros and Cons !
The best things about this setup is that you can "tune" the engine to the trans and wheel sizes by playin' with the sprocket sizes and if you later wish to use the bike engine in a 2 wheeler the original trans has not been damaged and can be returned to stock spec easily !
Ignorance is curable with education , Stupidity is terminal !gearhead1951
Builder
Posts: 356
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:55 am
Location: Greenock , Scotland Top
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: notes on trike drive trains
by budoka » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:21 am
hmmm, definitely food for thought. if i were in the States, you would probably have just cost me a trip to the junkyard (or backyard, since i *still* have a few cars sitting around at my old man's place, LOL).
i really do have to start researching the regs here related to trikes. you guys are gonna make me build one yet.
-dan-experience is a wonderful thing. It enables you to recognize a mistake when you make it again.
http://knuckleheadsummer.blogspot.com/
budoka
Site Admin
Posts: 1250
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:27 pm
Location: Yamanashi Shi, Japan
WebsiteICQYIM Top
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: notes on trike drive trains
by oadamo » Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:36 am
think this is what your on about, i dont this a few years back when i fitted a cbr1000 engine into a small car but the diff setup could be used on a trike easy. it didnt look pretty but it worked and never broke if i had a lathe then and a miller i could of done a lot better job of it.
adam
oadamo
Stalker
Posts: 173
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2011 8:35 am Top
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: notes on trike drive trains
by gearhead1951 » Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:25 pm
Yeah , thats it !!Ignorance is curable with education , Stupidity is terminal !gearhead1951
Builder
Posts: 356
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:55 am
Location: Greenock , Scotland Top
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: notes on trike drive trains
by gearhead1951 » Mon Apr 04, 2011 4:32 am
Another thing to consider is to run yer brakes "inboard" (close up to yer diff) ! This a good idea for ridgid or sprung because of the amount of weight it removes from the ends of the axles !! Ignorance is curable with education , Stupidity is terminal !gearhead1951
Builder
Posts: 356
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:55 am
Location: Greenock , Scotland Top
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: notes on trike drive trains
by Yona » Thu May 26, 2011 9:43 am
3 Series BMW's have a nice IRS setup ...aluminum center and you could use some tube A-arms for small car...mount the diff solid and mate the trans to the diff with a u-joint ...or CV....doing the metalwork on a Austin Healey 3000 MkII and the garage across the yard has some for sale for $150.00 each...would like to do a VTX1600...LOLDon't poke a bear with a short stick!
I.D.G.A.F.H.T.D.I.A.O.C.C.
I only work on scoots I like,When I feel like it,If it pays enough!
I hear ya'll have 2 village idiots, ..where's the other one?
If ya get a s#@t sandwich.......just eat the crust!!
Yona
Contributor
Posts: 709
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:20 am
Location: Baja Georgia-Jax,Fla Top
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I couldn't get the pics to transfer , but I thought this might be worth savin' !!
