Where to have welds tested?

An area for general welding posts that don't seem to fit anywhere else.
Jeff L
Contributor
Posts: 568
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:09 pm
SELF INTRODUCTION: Hey...I live in South Jersey (the Super Fund State) work as an Operating Engineer local825.Besides bikes I love to fish the surf.I have my current & seemingly endless project a BSA 750 Rocket3, a 72 Honda CB750,79 Kawasaki KZ1000, 48 Simplex, & a 62 Norton Atlas engine
Location: South Jersey

Re: Where to have welds tested?

Post by Jeff L » Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:43 pm

I cann't see the other pic, but understand what you're saying about the stress going through the straight line.
Changing the shape of the Earth...1 bucket at a time...IUOE local 825 top of the food chain

hansgoudzwaard
Contributor
Posts: 786
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:43 pm
SELF INTRODUCTION: I was on the last board as bonustoolkit. I have changed that to my given name.
I started a project build there " File and Fit." I paln to continue that when I go back home in Dec. 2011. I first joined the board when Gary W had it in the year 2005. That was the time I really gained an interest in building chops. I have a long way to go, compared to some here.

Re: Where to have welds tested?

Post by hansgoudzwaard » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:08 pm

Maybe this will work.
NEK1.JPG
hi.
NEK1.JPG (23.89 KiB) Viewed 1122 times
NEK2.JPG
hiya
NEK2.JPG (36.6 KiB) Viewed 1122 times

Jeff L
Contributor
Posts: 568
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:09 pm
SELF INTRODUCTION: Hey...I live in South Jersey (the Super Fund State) work as an Operating Engineer local825.Besides bikes I love to fish the surf.I have my current & seemingly endless project a BSA 750 Rocket3, a 72 Honda CB750,79 Kawasaki KZ1000, 48 Simplex, & a 62 Norton Atlas engine
Location: South Jersey

Re: Where to have welds tested?

Post by Jeff L » Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:02 am

Yes it did Hans...Nice color too.
Changing the shape of the Earth...1 bucket at a time...IUOE local 825 top of the food chain

fish11906
NewB
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:46 pm
SELF INTRODUCTION: My passion for motorcycles is only outdone by the passion I have to be an awesome dad to my incredible son. I am a professional welder in my day job and have worked in said profession for almost 25 years. I was a member on this site a couple years ago, but as life sometimes gets in the way (and I finished the bike I was building) I took some time to enjoy a little time of from fab and weld work on my bike to help out a few friends with their projects. This sure was pivotal to the success of my first build and was always a source of inspiration and incredible sport from several key members. My first post was answered by Gary himself and gave me a real push to get going on my project...Mr G. I still enjoy riding it today...it always turns heads. But IM starting to get restless and have gotten the itch to start building a new project. It seems my girlfriend wants a trike and my first stop was CBH. Since I now live in an my boss has let me use as small back room in or shop with access to all our tools ...good dude. Well that's about it...here's to reading many posts and meeting my fellow enthusiasts. TTWHTD.
Location: Tallahassee Fl

Re: Where to have welds tested?

Post by fish11906 » Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:20 pm

The ultimate test of your welding skills or abilities...build it than RIDE it.. Any reputable welding shop in your town should...remember SHOULD be able to do a visual inspection. They can also suggest methods for you to improve your skills or offer advice. Most guys who weld will be happy to help and show you some tricks and tips. Hope that helps some.
T.T.W.H.T.D

hansgoudzwaard
Contributor
Posts: 786
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:43 pm
SELF INTRODUCTION: I was on the last board as bonustoolkit. I have changed that to my given name.
I started a project build there " File and Fit." I paln to continue that when I go back home in Dec. 2011. I first joined the board when Gary W had it in the year 2005. That was the time I really gained an interest in building chops. I have a long way to go, compared to some here.

Re: Where to have welds tested?

Post by hansgoudzwaard » Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:36 pm

http://www.chopperweb.info/forum/showth ... genumber=6

I was looking through an old thread and here was a description. Check post number 83.

I know several mechanical engineers, and they would probably tell you the same thing.

rakeNtrail
Lurker
Posts: 50
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:28 am
SELF INTRODUCTION: Just a grumpy old welder/chopperhedd Spent far too much time burning wire for a living but hey, one does have to pay the bills ya know! Worked shipyards and fab shops welding about everything stick, mig, tig and sub-arc. Both hand held and automated. Worked weekends in a Honda shop in the late 70's and in an all bike shop in the late 80's thru early 90's. Likes? Choppers, rock-N-roll, NRA and boobies! Dislikes? PC, VD, AARP & NAACP I'm pro business and totally against big government interfering in our daily lives. Live free or die baby and you'll have to pry it from my cold dead hands. Do love little children and puppies though. Both of them can turn me into a 300lb. old softie!
Location: North By God Carolina

Re: Where to have welds tested?

Post by rakeNtrail » Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:44 pm

fish11906 wrote:The ultimate test of your welding skills or abilities...build it than RIDE it.. Any reputable welding shop in your town should...remember SHOULD be able to do a visual inspection. They can also suggest methods for you to improve your skills or offer advice. Most guys who weld will be happy to help and show you some tricks and tips. Hope that helps some.
Sorry dude but all a visual inspection will tell you is what the surface looks like.

There was a frame builder a few years back that had some of the prettiest stacks of dimes you've ever seen. (Tallon IIRC)
Zero penetration and a shitload of pissed off customers.

Seat time (practice) is paramount to becoming proficient. But, the last thing a newby needs to be doing is learning on a
motorcycle frame. Get some scraps and practice both fit up and welding. The better you are with the fit up the better you
will get with the welding end of the business. Try to make your joints look as professional as possible. Then cut them open
and see what your penetration actually looks like. The life you save may be your fucking own. For me, I like to see the joint keyhole
in front of the puddle ever so slightly. Then add the filler to fill and chill the puddle and roll on. If the joint keyholes slightly it means
you've penetrated all the way to the bottom. Careful though, you don't want to make a giant sink hole either.

fish11906
NewB
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:46 pm
SELF INTRODUCTION: My passion for motorcycles is only outdone by the passion I have to be an awesome dad to my incredible son. I am a professional welder in my day job and have worked in said profession for almost 25 years. I was a member on this site a couple years ago, but as life sometimes gets in the way (and I finished the bike I was building) I took some time to enjoy a little time of from fab and weld work on my bike to help out a few friends with their projects. This sure was pivotal to the success of my first build and was always a source of inspiration and incredible sport from several key members. My first post was answered by Gary himself and gave me a real push to get going on my project...Mr G. I still enjoy riding it today...it always turns heads. But IM starting to get restless and have gotten the itch to start building a new project. It seems my girlfriend wants a trike and my first stop was CBH. Since I now live in an my boss has let me use as small back room in or shop with access to all our tools ...good dude. Well that's about it...here's to reading many posts and meeting my fellow enthusiasts. TTWHTD.
Location: Tallahassee Fl

Re: Where to have welds tested?

Post by fish11906 » Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:45 am

I understand your view on the subject....I was simply offering an alternative to costly mag, radio, or ultrasound testing. Most common newb welder mistake is not running your heat high enough, which in turn leaves unpenetrated weld that can be easily spotted. The ride/test was my attempt at humor.lol. Guess it didn't translate that well. Practice, practice, practice....you'll only get better and find your comfort zone in the process.
T.T.W.H.T.D

User avatar
Maxthegardener
Builder
Posts: 384
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:28 am
SELF INTRODUCTION: Name is Max living in scotland ,and building my first bike, Which is derived from a buellM2 Cyclone..Started with an engine and a Drop seat frame wich was made to my spec by a more experienced builder. would like to learn more about the skills and techniques required to build a frame so I value being a member here...Cheers Max
Location: Angus, Scotland

Re: Where to have welds tested?

Post by Maxthegardener » Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:46 pm

Is that your frame Hans?

anyway I'll show whats on mine.
Attachments
Photo0237.jpg
Photo0237.jpg (96.04 KiB) Viewed 1093 times
Photo0236.jpg
Photo0236.jpg (47.46 KiB) Viewed 1093 times

hansgoudzwaard
Contributor
Posts: 786
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:43 pm
SELF INTRODUCTION: I was on the last board as bonustoolkit. I have changed that to my given name.
I started a project build there " File and Fit." I paln to continue that when I go back home in Dec. 2011. I first joined the board when Gary W had it in the year 2005. That was the time I really gained an interest in building chops. I have a long way to go, compared to some here.

Re: Where to have welds tested?

Post by hansgoudzwaard » Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:53 pm

Naw Max;

It was from a build on CW.

This one is mine.
DSC06630.JPG
hope it holds
DSC06630.JPG (137.42 KiB) Viewed 1091 times

rakeNtrail
Lurker
Posts: 50
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:28 am
SELF INTRODUCTION: Just a grumpy old welder/chopperhedd Spent far too much time burning wire for a living but hey, one does have to pay the bills ya know! Worked shipyards and fab shops welding about everything stick, mig, tig and sub-arc. Both hand held and automated. Worked weekends in a Honda shop in the late 70's and in an all bike shop in the late 80's thru early 90's. Likes? Choppers, rock-N-roll, NRA and boobies! Dislikes? PC, VD, AARP & NAACP I'm pro business and totally against big government interfering in our daily lives. Live free or die baby and you'll have to pry it from my cold dead hands. Do love little children and puppies though. Both of them can turn me into a 300lb. old softie!
Location: North By God Carolina

Re: Where to have welds tested?

Post by rakeNtrail » Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:54 am

fish11906 wrote:I understand your view on the subject....I was simply offering an alternative to costly mag, radio, or ultrasound testing. Most common newb welder mistake is not running your heat high enough, which in turn leaves unpenetrated weld that can be easily spotted. The ride/test was my attempt at humor.lol. Guess it didn't translate that well. Practice, practice, practice....you'll only get better and find your comfort zone in the process.

Sorry if I came off like a prick but I spent far too many years welding stuff that had to pass X-ray.
I also spent a few years training new recruits in how to weld proficiently enough to pass testing.
I guess the fact that, if one of our welds fail, a whole compliment of sailors don't get to go home to
their wives and children. Ever! I also knew a guy that thought black iron pipe was plenty strong enough
to build a radical rigid frame out of. I was a pallbearer at his funeral. His frame came apart one night
on one of them bumpy assed New England country back roads. He hit a stone wall head first. BTW, his
kid sister and I were the ones that found him. That was almost 30 years ago and it still bothers me when
I talk about it.

Welding a frame ain't no joke.

fish11906
NewB
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:46 pm
SELF INTRODUCTION: My passion for motorcycles is only outdone by the passion I have to be an awesome dad to my incredible son. I am a professional welder in my day job and have worked in said profession for almost 25 years. I was a member on this site a couple years ago, but as life sometimes gets in the way (and I finished the bike I was building) I took some time to enjoy a little time of from fab and weld work on my bike to help out a few friends with their projects. This sure was pivotal to the success of my first build and was always a source of inspiration and incredible sport from several key members. My first post was answered by Gary himself and gave me a real push to get going on my project...Mr G. I still enjoy riding it today...it always turns heads. But IM starting to get restless and have gotten the itch to start building a new project. It seems my girlfriend wants a trike and my first stop was CBH. Since I now live in an my boss has let me use as small back room in or shop with access to all our tools ...good dude. Well that's about it...here's to reading many posts and meeting my fellow enthusiasts. TTWHTD.
Location: Tallahassee Fl

Re: Where to have welds tested?

Post by fish11906 » Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:15 am

No problem dude....I've been a welder in the oil fields, nuke and med field for over 15years and sometimes get carried away with giving advice. As a former sailor and SW operator I appreciate your attention to detail .Thank you for your service and professionalism.
T.T.W.H.T.D

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curt
Contributor
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Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:36 am
SELF INTRODUCTION: hi everyone its me from the old bord hopeing to see everyone come here and all the newcomers . lets make this as good as the old one or even better . lookin foreward to seeing everyones projects continue and ill be continueing mine too
Location: utica new york

Re: Where to have welds tested?

Post by curt » Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:56 pm

max those welds look nice and hans i really like the design of that brace . watterjet?
ever notice when you hit somethin or someone with a hammer you feel instantly better

hansgoudzwaard
Contributor
Posts: 786
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:43 pm
SELF INTRODUCTION: I was on the last board as bonustoolkit. I have changed that to my given name.
I started a project build there " File and Fit." I paln to continue that when I go back home in Dec. 2011. I first joined the board when Gary W had it in the year 2005. That was the time I really gained an interest in building chops. I have a long way to go, compared to some here.

Re: Where to have welds tested?

Post by hansgoudzwaard » Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:48 pm

curt wrote: watterjet?
It is.

I saw something similar online, drew it out to my size, rake, etc., my son made a dxf file for it.

The neck area gusseting is similar to what Gary W. recommended in his CD.

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railroad bob
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SELF INTRODUCTION: Hi Dan, thanks for your time and energy spent on this new board. I hope you will give me a waiver on the email account, I have used gmail so long I don't have a clue what my service provider account is.
I just returned home from a 2 week trip in New Mexico, have a few good pix, can't wait to share my off-highway traveling. Got to put 1400 miles on the scoot.

Best, Bob Davidson
Location: Alaska

Re: Where to have welds tested?

Post by railroad bob » Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:04 pm

I've been an inspector for many years, and have considerable experience with
Non-Destructive Testing (NDT). Also a CWI.

I personally second the suggestion to use practice welds and destructive test them.

2 of the common NDT methods are surface only, why bother...
PT (dye penetrant) uses a solvent cleaner, a dye, and a developer, each requiring a dwell time (you have to wait for a short time).
MT (magnetic particle) uses equipment to induce a magnetic field in the steel and the technician sprinkles a powder on the part. The powder
has iron filings in it with a dye color, and follows the flux lines. Any unusual indication breaks the flux line, and the powder follows.

Both are limited to surface inspection only. For frame welds, a thoro visual inspection does just as good.

UT (Ultrasound) uses expensive equipment and the technician is trained. The tech uses a handheld transducer to move in patterns over the surface of the material.
Needs to have a certain amount of space to do this, and the weld joint configuration is important.
You would not be able to get a useful scan on something like the welds on a fork neck. Possibly on a tube weld on a straight section of frame.
Very limited application here.

RT (industrial radiography or XRay) uses a portable radioactive source, is HazMat and regulated by the NRC. This method would have very limited application here also.
Round objects (pipe or tubing) require a minimum of 2 shots (xrays), usually more, to get a good view of all areas of the weld. Even then, it is possible
for an indication to be masked by other features.

Better to practice on the same material and joint configurations, get some good looking welds, get comfortable with it,
put one in a vise and tear it up, use a hammer, bars, reef on it like a mean mofo. If it breaks, see where and why, check it carefully,
use the lye solution suggested to check the penetration, all those things.

AA xray might be useful if you wanted to check the penetration on a final weld, one that will be a completed product you don't want to destroy,
but it will not be definitive that there is nothing wrong woth the weld.
Also, any inspection company doing inspection on something like this will not have any code to use when interpreting results,
and will not accept or reject a weld. They will also have disclaimers out the ass that this is only for information.
Again, very limited application.

May the Source be with you... (groan)
new international radiation symbol.jpg
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rakeNtrail
Lurker
Posts: 50
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:28 am
SELF INTRODUCTION: Just a grumpy old welder/chopperhedd Spent far too much time burning wire for a living but hey, one does have to pay the bills ya know! Worked shipyards and fab shops welding about everything stick, mig, tig and sub-arc. Both hand held and automated. Worked weekends in a Honda shop in the late 70's and in an all bike shop in the late 80's thru early 90's. Likes? Choppers, rock-N-roll, NRA and boobies! Dislikes? PC, VD, AARP & NAACP I'm pro business and totally against big government interfering in our daily lives. Live free or die baby and you'll have to pry it from my cold dead hands. Do love little children and puppies though. Both of them can turn me into a 300lb. old softie!
Location: North By God Carolina

Re: Where to have welds tested?

Post by rakeNtrail » Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:00 pm

railroad bob wrote:I've been an inspector for many years, and have considerable experience with
Non-Destructive Testing (NDT). Also a CWI.

I personally second the suggestion to use practice welds and destructive test them.

2 of the common NDT methods are surface only, why bother...
PT (dye penetrant) uses a solvent cleaner, a dye, and a developer, each requiring a dwell time (you have to wait for a short time).
MT (magnetic particle) uses equipment to induce a magnetic field in the steel and the technician sprinkles a powder on the part. The powder
has iron filings in it with a dye color, and follows the flux lines. Any unusual indication breaks the flux line, and the powder follows.

Both are limited to surface inspection only. For frame welds, a thoro visual inspection does just as good.

UT (Ultrasound) uses expensive equipment and the technician is trained. The tech uses a handheld transducer to move in patterns over the surface of the material.
Needs to have a certain amount of space to do this, and the weld joint configuration is important.
You would not be able to get a useful scan on something like the welds on a fork neck. Possibly on a tube weld on a straight section of frame.
Very limited application here.

RT (industrial radiography or XRay) uses a portable radioactive source, is HazMat and regulated by the NRC. This method would have very limited application here also.
Round objects (pipe or tubing) require a minimum of 2 shots (xrays), usually more, to get a good view of all areas of the weld. Even then, it is possible
for an indication to be masked by other features.

Better to practice on the same material and joint configurations, get some good looking welds, get comfortable with it,
put one in a vise and tear it up, use a hammer, bars, reef on it like a mean mofo. If it breaks, see where and why, check it carefully,
use the lye solution suggested to check the penetration, all those things.

AA xray might be useful if you wanted to check the penetration on a final weld, one that will be a completed product you don't want to destroy,
but it will not be definitive that there is nothing wrong woth the weld.
Also, any inspection company doing inspection on something like this will not have any code to use when interpreting results,
and will not accept or reject a weld. They will also have disclaimers out the ass that this is only for information.
Again, very limited application.

May the Source be with you... (groan)
new international radiation symbol.jpg

Thanks Bob! I was starting to feel like the turd in the punch bowl! :roll: :-?

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