Let's Talk Stem Assy

Use this area for posts and questions that don't seem to fit anywhere else.
Post Reply
User avatar
rudog
Conventioneer
Posts: 256
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:03 pm
SELF INTRODUCTION: Jack of all. Master of none. Worked in a machine shop since I was 8. Desgined embedded computers for a few years. Done lots in between. If there's anything I've learned with certainty, "Anyone who looks like they know what they're doing is putting on an act."
Location: Texoma

Let's Talk Stem Assy

Post by rudog » Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:31 pm

I ordered a stem hardware kit. It seams to be missing the preload lock nut.
stem_kit.JPG
stem_kit.JPG (4.67 KiB) Viewed 1781 times
Do I need to make/order a lock nut?
Is the top yoke clamped against the lock nut?
What is the best way of doing this?

User avatar
jonester123
Builder
Posts: 402
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:06 pm
SELF INTRODUCTION: Hello guys and gals, working on my 1979 honda cb750 bobber chopper build plus many other projects etc. I have two workshops at home that i built so i can build bikes and all sorts of parts, and i mainly do auto body work and restoration repairs etc.
Location: Armstrong B.C Canada
Contact:

Re: Let's Talk Stem Assy

Post by jonester123 » Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:02 am

Hi man, not exactly sure . Looks a little funny to me also, better wait for the big guns to help solve this one. :think: :D

User avatar
rudog
Conventioneer
Posts: 256
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:03 pm
SELF INTRODUCTION: Jack of all. Master of none. Worked in a machine shop since I was 8. Desgined embedded computers for a few years. Done lots in between. If there's anything I've learned with certainty, "Anyone who looks like they know what they're doing is putting on an act."
Location: Texoma

Re: Let's Talk Stem Assy

Post by rudog » Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:04 am

I found it. Thanx

krymis
Conventioneer
Posts: 275
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2011 12:46 pm
SELF INTRODUCTION: Hey dan it chris (krymis) from the CBH board. thanks for opening this back up. hope to have a project to show the build here. BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH and so on and so forth. The book of revolations and worlds ends and shit like that.....

Re: Let's Talk Stem Assy

Post by krymis » Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:27 pm

rudy,

i actually use arbor shims under my dust cap to preload the bearings. and just use on top stem nut. it operates just the same just takes a little longer to set properly but in my opinion they look better with one nut.

User avatar
gww25
Site Grandaddy
Posts: 219
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:45 pm
SELF INTRODUCTION: I'm just an old chopper builders who still dabbles in the craft and I hope that I can contribute something to the discussions as time goes by. Most of you already know that I started the Chopper Builders Handbook site so you're probably already familiar with my philosophy on choppers and chopper work.
Location: Murphy, Texas
Contact:

Re: Let's Talk Stem Assy

Post by gww25 » Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:21 pm

Hang on just a minute and I'll take some pictures

User avatar
gww25
Site Grandaddy
Posts: 219
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:45 pm
SELF INTRODUCTION: I'm just an old chopper builders who still dabbles in the craft and I hope that I can contribute something to the discussions as time goes by. Most of you already know that I started the Chopper Builders Handbook site so you're probably already familiar with my philosophy on choppers and chopper work.
Location: Murphy, Texas
Contact:

Re: Let's Talk Stem Assy

Post by gww25 » Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:12 pm

Here's some pictures if I can get them to load.
Image
This shows a complete neck assembly with afew extra parts depending on what configuration you have.
The next picture shows an enlargement of the bottom end of the neck. I show two different bearings here, One is the regular version and one is the 'sealed' version and then there is the dust cap that fits over the bearing and 'inside' the bearing cup to seal out crud.
Image
The next picture is the 'upper' end of the stem and I show two different types of 'preload' nuts
Image
What I don't show is the thin 'lock-washer' as mine is missing in action. You have it in your kit per your pictures. There are two differnt preload nuts shown in my picture. I think that there are more versions but these two are the most common. The upper tree fits down onto this preload nut but should not be actualy touching it. The tree goes on and then you cap it off with the stem cap nut that seats down into the hole in the Top Tree.
There is far better explaination of this entire process in the stock Harley service manuals but this is my 2-cents.

User avatar
gww25
Site Grandaddy
Posts: 219
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:45 pm
SELF INTRODUCTION: I'm just an old chopper builders who still dabbles in the craft and I hope that I can contribute something to the discussions as time goes by. Most of you already know that I started the Chopper Builders Handbook site so you're probably already familiar with my philosophy on choppers and chopper work.
Location: Murphy, Texas
Contact:

Re: Let's Talk Stem Assy

Post by gww25 » Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:37 pm

Not to hijack this thread but I think that it's important that a builder have copies of the service manuals going back as far in time as is possible to obtain. A lot of builders put stuff together by instinct or 'ad-lib' like Billy Lane for example who seems to have more than his share of problems with his bikes from a basic assembly standpoint. Other builders don't ever seem to have any problems at all since they do use the manuals. For example Indian Larry built his bikes to 'factory' with respect to the 'small stuff' and his rides were most of the time trouble-free and any bike mechanic could work on his stuff since it was to a 'factory' specification. Even a completely custom bike should be built to factory specs with respect to the small stuff as someday somebody is going to have to rebuild it.

User avatar
gww25
Site Grandaddy
Posts: 219
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:45 pm
SELF INTRODUCTION: I'm just an old chopper builders who still dabbles in the craft and I hope that I can contribute something to the discussions as time goes by. Most of you already know that I started the Chopper Builders Handbook site so you're probably already familiar with my philosophy on choppers and chopper work.
Location: Murphy, Texas
Contact:

Re: Let's Talk Stem Assy

Post by gww25 » Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:40 pm

Sorry that I didn't really respond to your original post but the kit you received is indeed complete and that weird looking castelated nut is you preload nut and the thin washer with the turned down tab is your lock washer.

User avatar
rudog
Conventioneer
Posts: 256
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:03 pm
SELF INTRODUCTION: Jack of all. Master of none. Worked in a machine shop since I was 8. Desgined embedded computers for a few years. Done lots in between. If there's anything I've learned with certainty, "Anyone who looks like they know what they're doing is putting on an act."
Location: Texoma

Re: Let's Talk Stem Assy

Post by rudog » Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:52 pm

Thanx, Gary. Your knowledge is always appreciated.

My front end will be a girder style. The advice Krynis gave is all I could find regarding girder preload. With the weight of the bike being on the upper yoke rather than the lower, I don't know what's important.

I have an assy drawing of the indian girder with the upper yoke keyed and clamped under the preload and lock nut. My current plan is to drop the stem down from the top, pressed and keyed to the upper yoke. Then with the lower yoke keyed to the stem, hold everything together with the preload nut, lock washer, and lock nut.

Does that sound OK.

User avatar
gww25
Site Grandaddy
Posts: 219
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:45 pm
SELF INTRODUCTION: I'm just an old chopper builders who still dabbles in the craft and I hope that I can contribute something to the discussions as time goes by. Most of you already know that I started the Chopper Builders Handbook site so you're probably already familiar with my philosophy on choppers and chopper work.
Location: Murphy, Texas
Contact:

Re: Let's Talk Stem Assy

Post by gww25 » Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:17 am

I think I see where you're going with this as there is an old myth about the yokes on girders being able to move independently unless they are keyed to the stem and this is true with some designs but on my girders we put them together exactly like a springer and we've never had any problems but if you want to use a keyed stem that's a great way to go. Preload should be set up per the manual for a glide front end.

User avatar
rudog
Conventioneer
Posts: 256
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:03 pm
SELF INTRODUCTION: Jack of all. Master of none. Worked in a machine shop since I was 8. Desgined embedded computers for a few years. Done lots in between. If there's anything I've learned with certainty, "Anyone who looks like they know what they're doing is putting on an act."
Location: Texoma

Re: Let's Talk Stem Assy

Post by rudog » Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:41 am

Thanx, Gary. I'm gonna run with it. Any additional info regarding this is welcomed.

I still have a way to go before I commit to steel.

User avatar
budoka
Site Admin
Posts: 361
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:51 pm
SELF INTRODUCTION: I'm a Kentucky boy who's found himself transplanted into Japan. been into turning wrenches as long as i can remember. i love muscle cars, hotrod bikes, and the martial arts.

been a member of this board since back when it was a part of Chopperweb. been handling the tech side and sharing the admin duties for several years now.
Location: Yamanashi Shi, Japan
Contact:

Re: Let's Talk Stem Assy

Post by budoka » Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:34 am

rudog, what i did, was to find a big nut without a shoulder on it that was really thick, and turned it down to fit tight inside the top tree for about half of its thickness and used it for a preload nut. this, combined with the top acorn nut which had a shoulder on it to fit into the top tree, worked to clamp down tight on the top tree, eliminating any movement or resultant vibration.

worked good for me.

-dan
-experience is a wonderful thing. It enables you to recognize a mistake when you make it again.
http://knuckleheadsummer.blogspot.com/

User avatar
rudog
Conventioneer
Posts: 256
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:03 pm
SELF INTRODUCTION: Jack of all. Master of none. Worked in a machine shop since I was 8. Desgined embedded computers for a few years. Done lots in between. If there's anything I've learned with certainty, "Anyone who looks like they know what they're doing is putting on an act."
Location: Texoma

Re: Let's Talk Stem Assy

Post by rudog » Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:20 pm

Thanx, Dan.

I'm gonna sumarize the 4 methods discussed here. If anyone sees something wrong or that needs to be added...please do.

1. Old scool...Top nut bottomed on stem (i guess) holding the upper yoke. Shims added under yoke for preload. Locktite essential.

2. Most common...Various forms of...preload below upper yoke with top nut clamping yoke into preload nut. Locktite, less so, but still essential.

3. Stock Indian...Keyed and clamped upper yoke with preload and locknut on top of yoke. Locktite not needed, but add for piece of mind.

4. Mine...Backward assy with top yoke mounted hard to the stem and preload/lock nuts under lower yoke. Both yokes keyed to the stem. Locktite added for piece of mind.

User avatar
gww25
Site Grandaddy
Posts: 219
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:45 pm
SELF INTRODUCTION: I'm just an old chopper builders who still dabbles in the craft and I hope that I can contribute something to the discussions as time goes by. Most of you already know that I started the Chopper Builders Handbook site so you're probably already familiar with my philosophy on choppers and chopper work.
Location: Murphy, Texas
Contact:

Re: Let's Talk Stem Assy

Post by gww25 » Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:55 pm

That sounds pretty good but you never use locktite on your preload nut. You'll have to adjust preload periodically over the life of the bike as the bearings set and wear in.

User avatar
rudog
Conventioneer
Posts: 256
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:03 pm
SELF INTRODUCTION: Jack of all. Master of none. Worked in a machine shop since I was 8. Desgined embedded computers for a few years. Done lots in between. If there's anything I've learned with certainty, "Anyone who looks like they know what they're doing is putting on an act."
Location: Texoma

Re: Let's Talk Stem Assy

Post by rudog » Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:50 pm

Great!!! I think I've got a handle on it now. I'll prolly go to an indy shop for setting preload. It's better that I see it done than read about it. It doesn't sound that hard. I'll be taking it anyway for tweekin' & tunin' the engine.

Post Reply

Return to “General Technical Matters”