Rocker re-design for long chop

Try using this area for frontend information.
Nanny Frank
NewB
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:23 pm
SELF INTRODUCTION: Garage builder of choppers. Here to learn, build, ride and have fun.

I currently have a Buell X1 that I have completely torn apart. I sold all the bits but the motor and front forks, and have plugged those into a Paughco rigid frame. My desire is to learn to build and fabricate all the parts myself that I need to build.

To that end I just bought a Miller 165 and am learning to Tig, and I am trying to build up my shop tools.

I have learned a ton from this site just from lurking and decided to jpoin bevcause this site is about building. There are other sites that used to be about the technical aspects of building, but now they discuss what style of vest or jeans or boots they are wearing while riding, Ugh.

I am very happy to find this place.

Rocker re-design for long chop

Post by Nanny Frank »

Krymis (and others), firstly, thank you very much for placing your wealth of knowledge on the web. I feel that I have only scratched the surface of my learning with these suspensions, and feel myself being dragged deeper and deeper.

I have a long chop that has been raked to 45*. There is no offset in my trees. Currently the trail is over 12" and the wheel flop is quite pronounced. Here's a crappy pic:
Image

Following your build rules and diagrams I used DraftSight to re-design the rockers. My current front wheel is a 3.00/18 Pirelli MT66. For the CAD, I set the rim diameter at 18" and set the tire sidewall at 90mm.

I set my trail at 0.125" and applied the 90* rule. I set the spring leg hole at half the angle of rake from a horizontal zero...i.e. my rake is 45* so i moved off horizontal 22.5*.

The points are merely hole centers and are not yet scaled for true axle or leg diameters. I would appreciate the board's review, critique, suggestions, etc. Thanks!

Image

Image

Thanks
krymis
Conventioneer
Posts: 277
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2011 12:46 pm
SELF INTRODUCTION: Hey dan it chris (krymis) from the CBH board. thanks for opening this back up. hope to have a project to show the build here. BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH and so on and so forth. The book of revolations and worlds ends and shit like that.....

Re: Rocker re-design for long chop

Post by krymis »

looks good. move your trail to 2" and your 90* angle to 105* and post your drawing. I want to see what you got.
User avatar
curt
Long in the Tooth
Posts: 1068
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:36 am
SELF INTRODUCTION: hi everyone its me from the old bord hopeing to see everyone come here and all the newcomers . lets make this as good as the old one or even better . lookin foreward to seeing everyones projects continue and ill be continueing mine too
Location: utica new york

Re: Rocker re-design for long chop

Post by curt »

nice ride
ever notice when you hit somethin or someone with a hammer you feel instantly better
Nanny Frank
NewB
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:23 pm
SELF INTRODUCTION: Garage builder of choppers. Here to learn, build, ride and have fun.

I currently have a Buell X1 that I have completely torn apart. I sold all the bits but the motor and front forks, and have plugged those into a Paughco rigid frame. My desire is to learn to build and fabricate all the parts myself that I need to build.

To that end I just bought a Miller 165 and am learning to Tig, and I am trying to build up my shop tools.

I have learned a ton from this site just from lurking and decided to jpoin bevcause this site is about building. There are other sites that used to be about the technical aspects of building, but now they discuss what style of vest or jeans or boots they are wearing while riding, Ugh.

I am very happy to find this place.

Re: Rocker re-design for long chop

Post by Nanny Frank »

@curt: thanks!

@krymis, here's the numbers moving the 90* rule to 105* and trail to 2"

Image

Image
User avatar
Customize IT
Contributor
Posts: 992
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 7:54 am
SELF INTRODUCTION: I am a young punk kid that needs some help building himself a chopper!!

I am sorry I only have a hotmail account???

Tell me what I need to do I need help with my girder!!!

PLESE HELP????


[url=http://imgur.com/8saXkqN][img]http://i.imgur.com/8saXkqNl.jpg[/img][/url]








[url=http://imgur.com/pXJZqQ0][img]http://i.imgur.com/pXJZqQ0l.jpg[/img][/url]









[url=http://imgur.com/T3Q4Ev4][img]http://i.imgur.com/T3Q4Ev4l.jpg[/img][/url]









[url=http://imgur.com/fsXGYQw][img]http://i.imgur.com/fsXGYQwl.jpg[/img][/url]
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: Rocker re-design for long chop

Post by Customize IT »

Killer Chop!

Want more pics?
Nanny Frank
NewB
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:23 pm
SELF INTRODUCTION: Garage builder of choppers. Here to learn, build, ride and have fun.

I currently have a Buell X1 that I have completely torn apart. I sold all the bits but the motor and front forks, and have plugged those into a Paughco rigid frame. My desire is to learn to build and fabricate all the parts myself that I need to build.

To that end I just bought a Miller 165 and am learning to Tig, and I am trying to build up my shop tools.

I have learned a ton from this site just from lurking and decided to jpoin bevcause this site is about building. There are other sites that used to be about the technical aspects of building, but now they discuss what style of vest or jeans or boots they are wearing while riding, Ugh.

I am very happy to find this place.

Re: Rocker re-design for long chop

Post by Nanny Frank »

Krymis, can you further explain to me the rationale for setting up with 0.125" of trail?
krymis
Conventioneer
Posts: 277
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2011 12:46 pm
SELF INTRODUCTION: Hey dan it chris (krymis) from the CBH board. thanks for opening this back up. hope to have a project to show the build here. BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH and so on and so forth. The book of revolations and worlds ends and shit like that.....

Re: Rocker re-design for long chop

Post by krymis »

I already drew it out. Use a 105* angle between the axle and steering Centerline. Basically you need to flip your angle to the top instead of underneathand use 2" of trial. you should handle great
User avatar
gww25
Site Grandaddy
Posts: 219
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:45 pm
SELF INTRODUCTION: I'm just an old chopper builders who still dabbles in the craft and I hope that I can contribute something to the discussions as time goes by. Most of you already know that I started the Chopper Builders Handbook site so you're probably already familiar with my philosophy on choppers and chopper work.
Location: Murphy, Texas
Contact:

Re: Rocker re-design for long chop

Post by gww25 »

That last diagram won't work as shown since the geometry between the rocker pivot points won't allow for full spring compression unless I'm reading the drawing wrong.
Nanny Frank
NewB
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:23 pm
SELF INTRODUCTION: Garage builder of choppers. Here to learn, build, ride and have fun.

I currently have a Buell X1 that I have completely torn apart. I sold all the bits but the motor and front forks, and have plugged those into a Paughco rigid frame. My desire is to learn to build and fabricate all the parts myself that I need to build.

To that end I just bought a Miller 165 and am learning to Tig, and I am trying to build up my shop tools.

I have learned a ton from this site just from lurking and decided to jpoin bevcause this site is about building. There are other sites that used to be about the technical aspects of building, but now they discuss what style of vest or jeans or boots they are wearing while riding, Ugh.

I am very happy to find this place.

Re: Rocker re-design for long chop

Post by Nanny Frank »

Currently the biggest problem is that the springer doesn't function as a springer at it's current geometry. Currently the only suspension comes from the rear leg flexing.

I thought that by re-designing the rockers I could improve the trail, reduce neck flop, and correct the geometry so that the springer actually, springs, rather than simply flex/bounce on the rear leg tubes.

Today a mechanic buddy and I took more detailed measurements and pulled out the laser. Turns out the rake is 55 degrees, not 45, so this makes all the drawings I did previously not apply.

We are going to jig it up and get the geometry right, it's just going to take some figurin'.

Stay tuned, and thanks for all the replies so far.
User avatar
railroad bob
Contributor
Posts: 939
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:07 pm
SELF INTRODUCTION: Hi Dan, thanks for your time and energy spent on this new board. I hope you will give me a waiver on the email account, I have used gmail so long I don't have a clue what my service provider account is.
I just returned home from a 2 week trip in New Mexico, have a few good pix, can't wait to share my off-highway traveling. Got to put 1400 miles on the scoot.

Best, Bob Davidson
Location: Alaska

Re: Rocker re-design for long chop

Post by railroad bob »

curt wrote:nice ride
What he said...

Is that an Invader front wheel?
Alaska - Land of the Individual and Other Endangered Species
An Armed Society is a Polite Society,...
Politicians Prefer Unarmed Peasants
TANSTAAFL
Nanny Frank
NewB
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:23 pm
SELF INTRODUCTION: Garage builder of choppers. Here to learn, build, ride and have fun.

I currently have a Buell X1 that I have completely torn apart. I sold all the bits but the motor and front forks, and have plugged those into a Paughco rigid frame. My desire is to learn to build and fabricate all the parts myself that I need to build.

To that end I just bought a Miller 165 and am learning to Tig, and I am trying to build up my shop tools.

I have learned a ton from this site just from lurking and decided to jpoin bevcause this site is about building. There are other sites that used to be about the technical aspects of building, but now they discuss what style of vest or jeans or boots they are wearing while riding, Ugh.

I am very happy to find this place.

Re: Rocker re-design for long chop

Post by Nanny Frank »

Here are a couple of more pictures to better show the current set up, and to hopefully help guide me in the best direction.

Image

Image
User avatar
Maxthegardener
Builder
Posts: 384
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:28 am
SELF INTRODUCTION: Name is Max living in scotland ,and building my first bike, Which is derived from a buellM2 Cyclone..Started with an engine and a Drop seat frame wich was made to my spec by a more experienced builder. would like to learn more about the skills and techniques required to build a frame so I value being a member here...Cheers Max
Location: Angus, Scotland

Re: Rocker re-design for long chop

Post by Maxthegardener »

Are those rockers on upside down?.or is that a stupid question?
User avatar
gww25
Site Grandaddy
Posts: 219
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:45 pm
SELF INTRODUCTION: I'm just an old chopper builders who still dabbles in the craft and I hope that I can contribute something to the discussions as time goes by. Most of you already know that I started the Chopper Builders Handbook site so you're probably already familiar with my philosophy on choppers and chopper work.
Location: Murphy, Texas
Contact:

Re: Rocker re-design for long chop

Post by gww25 »

I looked at this all over again and the first diagram you posted would have been close to perfect even with the additional 10-degree rake thrown into the mix.
User avatar
gww25
Site Grandaddy
Posts: 219
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:45 pm
SELF INTRODUCTION: I'm just an old chopper builders who still dabbles in the craft and I hope that I can contribute something to the discussions as time goes by. Most of you already know that I started the Chopper Builders Handbook site so you're probably already familiar with my philosophy on choppers and chopper work.
Location: Murphy, Texas
Contact:

Re: Rocker re-design for long chop

Post by gww25 »

Just as a side note. On long springers it's pretty typical that about 80% of the perceived suspension comes from the legs flexing which is just to bad but almost unavoidable unless you're using 2-inch diameter legs. When the legs flex then the rockers and springs don't get a chance to work. You can improve this somewhat by changing the angles between the front and rear pivot pin hole locations but you really nee to do this by trial and error so it can get expensive.
Nanny Frank
NewB
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:23 pm
SELF INTRODUCTION: Garage builder of choppers. Here to learn, build, ride and have fun.

I currently have a Buell X1 that I have completely torn apart. I sold all the bits but the motor and front forks, and have plugged those into a Paughco rigid frame. My desire is to learn to build and fabricate all the parts myself that I need to build.

To that end I just bought a Miller 165 and am learning to Tig, and I am trying to build up my shop tools.

I have learned a ton from this site just from lurking and decided to jpoin bevcause this site is about building. There are other sites that used to be about the technical aspects of building, but now they discuss what style of vest or jeans or boots they are wearing while riding, Ugh.

I am very happy to find this place.

Re: Rocker re-design for long chop

Post by Nanny Frank »

Krymis and gww25, thanks for your insight. Curt, I haven't forgotten about you, I haven't disassembled the front end yet!

So I have gone back to the drawing board, corrected the rake to 55 degrees. Krymis, as you asked, I went to a 2 inch trail at a 105 degree rule.

Do my results look appropriate? Thanks all!

Image

Image
Post Reply

Return to “Springers, Girders, Spirders and Leafers”