Building a Girder for my Honda Rebel 250

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Swamprabbit1
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SELF INTRODUCTION: I'm from Arkansas. Farm equipment mechanic. Love working on bikes with my 7yr old daughter. Single dad. Doing it all on my own. Good standing member over on the Honda rebel forum and TCU forum. My first chopper build was a Honda Rebel 250. Looking for a big brother to it. A Honda Rebel 450. I'm wanting to build a girder for the 250 and was told that this is the place to come for knowledge and help.

Building a Girder for my Honda Rebel 250

Post by Swamprabbit1 » Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:05 am

First, I want to give credit where credit is due.
Thanks CustomizeIT for all your help with this now and along the way to come.
Lets not forget the Handbook.
Need to get the stem out of the tree.
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Next to get some measurements from the stem.
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Through the Gates of Hell for a Wounded Marine.
Devil Doc

Swamprabbit1
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Posts: 212
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:34 am
SELF INTRODUCTION: I'm from Arkansas. Farm equipment mechanic. Love working on bikes with my 7yr old daughter. Single dad. Doing it all on my own. Good standing member over on the Honda rebel forum and TCU forum. My first chopper build was a Honda Rebel 250. Looking for a big brother to it. A Honda Rebel 450. I'm wanting to build a girder for the 250 and was told that this is the place to come for knowledge and help.

Re: Building a Girder for my Honda Rebel 250

Post by Swamprabbit1 » Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:08 am

This will be and inside link Girder.
Started on my piviot pionts.
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Got them from the machinist off of the TCU. wrote for the tree.
Think we are going to pull it in a little tighter than the measurement. (got these from the Handbook)
Image
Through the Gates of Hell for a Wounded Marine.
Devil Doc

Swamprabbit1
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Posts: 212
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:34 am
SELF INTRODUCTION: I'm from Arkansas. Farm equipment mechanic. Love working on bikes with my 7yr old daughter. Single dad. Doing it all on my own. Good standing member over on the Honda rebel forum and TCU forum. My first chopper build was a Honda Rebel 250. Looking for a big brother to it. A Honda Rebel 450. I'm wanting to build a girder for the 250 and was told that this is the place to come for knowledge and help.

Re: Building a Girder for my Honda Rebel 250

Post by Swamprabbit1 » Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:56 am

Having the links machined by Mugsy. A member of the HRF.
Making 6 links, 2 for setup 4 for the girder.
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Here is the machine that he is using. A Robodrill (cool equipment)
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Program is wrote and loaded. Waiting on machine time. :banana-dance:
Through the Gates of Hell for a Wounded Marine.
Devil Doc

Swamprabbit1
Conventioneer
Posts: 212
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:34 am
SELF INTRODUCTION: I'm from Arkansas. Farm equipment mechanic. Love working on bikes with my 7yr old daughter. Single dad. Doing it all on my own. Good standing member over on the Honda rebel forum and TCU forum. My first chopper build was a Honda Rebel 250. Looking for a big brother to it. A Honda Rebel 450. I'm wanting to build a girder for the 250 and was told that this is the place to come for knowledge and help.

Re: Building a Girder for my Honda Rebel 250

Post by Swamprabbit1 » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:11 am

Received a picture from Mugsy. The machine is up and running. :dance:
Image
Through the Gates of Hell for a Wounded Marine.
Devil Doc

Swamprabbit1
Conventioneer
Posts: 212
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:34 am
SELF INTRODUCTION: I'm from Arkansas. Farm equipment mechanic. Love working on bikes with my 7yr old daughter. Single dad. Doing it all on my own. Good standing member over on the Honda rebel forum and TCU forum. My first chopper build was a Honda Rebel 250. Looking for a big brother to it. A Honda Rebel 450. I'm wanting to build a girder for the 250 and was told that this is the place to come for knowledge and help.

Re: Building a Girder for my Honda Rebel 250

Post by Swamprabbit1 » Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:01 am

Through the Gates of Hell for a Wounded Marine.
Devil Doc

Swamprabbit1
Conventioneer
Posts: 212
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:34 am
SELF INTRODUCTION: I'm from Arkansas. Farm equipment mechanic. Love working on bikes with my 7yr old daughter. Single dad. Doing it all on my own. Good standing member over on the Honda rebel forum and TCU forum. My first chopper build was a Honda Rebel 250. Looking for a big brother to it. A Honda Rebel 450. I'm wanting to build a girder for the 250 and was told that this is the place to come for knowledge and help.

Re: Building a Girder for my Honda Rebel 250

Post by Swamprabbit1 » Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:49 pm

Here we go.almost there.
Image :auto-dirtbike:
Through the Gates of Hell for a Wounded Marine.
Devil Doc

Swamprabbit1
Conventioneer
Posts: 212
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:34 am
SELF INTRODUCTION: I'm from Arkansas. Farm equipment mechanic. Love working on bikes with my 7yr old daughter. Single dad. Doing it all on my own. Good standing member over on the Honda rebel forum and TCU forum. My first chopper build was a Honda Rebel 250. Looking for a big brother to it. A Honda Rebel 450. I'm wanting to build a girder for the 250 and was told that this is the place to come for knowledge and help.

Re: Building a Girder for my Honda Rebel 250

Post by Swamprabbit1 » Fri Sep 05, 2014 2:44 pm

All done ready to be shipped.
Image
Through the Gates of Hell for a Wounded Marine.
Devil Doc

Swamprabbit1
Conventioneer
Posts: 212
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:34 am
SELF INTRODUCTION: I'm from Arkansas. Farm equipment mechanic. Love working on bikes with my 7yr old daughter. Single dad. Doing it all on my own. Good standing member over on the Honda rebel forum and TCU forum. My first chopper build was a Honda Rebel 250. Looking for a big brother to it. A Honda Rebel 450. I'm wanting to build a girder for the 250 and was told that this is the place to come for knowledge and help.

Re: Building a Girder for my Honda Rebel 250

Post by Swamprabbit1 » Fri Sep 05, 2014 2:45 pm

Thanks goes out to Tommy (left) and Mugsy (right)
Great job.
Image
Through the Gates of Hell for a Wounded Marine.
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Tell me what I need to do I need help with my girder!!!

PLESE HELP????


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Location: Ohio, USA

Re: Building a Girder for my Honda Rebel 250

Post by Customize IT » Wed Sep 10, 2014 12:23 am

Qoute Swamprabbit:

Links arrived to today. Christmas in September. Hope you can see the detail work. They took the time to bevill the edges. I can see the pride that they put into them. Can't say thanks enough time.

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We have a Rough draft. Still have some measurements to work out.
But I liked it so much that I had to post it.

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End Quote:

This is the 21 in wheel print.

Whatever he decides he has all the parts for the 19 in wheel.

Trail with 19 in or 21 in wheel goes from 3.5 in ride height to 3.885 in whether compressed or extended.

With 3.2492 of travel in the legs up and down total.

19in wheel to compare but, least expense because he has all the parts.

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He has no problem with ground height full compression has 4.6246 clearance.

Here is the motion drawing for the 19 in wheel.

Just to see the action and get the distances.

I have one made for the 21 in wheel also.

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Here is the overlay of the 2 different wheels and front ends in question.

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I may as well post the pic of the 21 in wheel in action.

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Here is the changes you wanted.

3/4 in plate for trees instead of 5/8 plate, and the clamp bolt location added, and the pins moved down to be flush with tops of trees.

The new trail is 3.5 in ride to 3.7885 extended or compressed.

Total travel has changed to 3.2482.

New screen shots. He has decided on 19in wheel and I agree best idea not only because of cost but the 21 in wheel goes to about the half way point of legs and will make the forks look shorter.

Also added this time a screen shot of the pin distances for the shock. A 12.5 in shock should work perfectly.

Also prints with and without wheel laces. May show girder better without.

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Showing tree with pins down flush with tops of trees.

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He wants to show what was need to build one of these.

A man of my own passion!

Here is the 6 dimensions I asked for to build the print and what you need to know to start one of these girder builds yourself.

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MAKE IT YOURS!!!

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The owner is driven by:
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RIDE HARD, RIDE FAST,RIDE LOUD

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gww25
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Re: Building a Girder for my Honda Rebel 250

Post by gww25 » Wed Sep 10, 2014 1:12 pm

Great work and good engineering on this project. Beware that the selection of the coil-over may become problematic unless you've already bought what you're going to be using. If the maker advertises 3-inches of travel you will typically only find 2 to 2.5-inches actually happens after you do the preload. Also watch out for the diameter of what I call the 'coil-housings'. I can't figure out a better name for the parts that contain the coil. Sometime on a skinny shock the housing can be very large like for a shock with a 2-inch coil the housing might be 3-inches in diameter which just won't work on a Girder. I try to use coil-overs that have 1.25 to 1.5-inch spring diameter and a 2-inch maximum 'housing', less is better.
How did you determine the weight on the forks to find the spring rate you'd need for this bike and are you going to use one or two springs. I get a lot of feedback and most Girder builders tell me that the spring rates they have selected have been to 'light' and the bikes settle almost to the full compression point after installation. Keep in mind that the basic spring rate has to equal the weight of the bikes front end weight bias including the rider. For most Harley chops this is between 200 and 300 pounds.
Great work and excellent design planning. Keep posting pictures

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Customize IT
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SELF INTRODUCTION: I am a young punk kid that needs some help building himself a chopper!!

I am sorry I only have a hotmail account???

Tell me what I need to do I need help with my girder!!!

PLESE HELP????


[url=http://imgur.com/8saXkqN][img]http://i.imgur.com/8saXkqNl.jpg[/img][/url]








[url=http://imgur.com/pXJZqQ0][img]http://i.imgur.com/pXJZqQ0l.jpg[/img][/url]









[url=http://imgur.com/T3Q4Ev4][img]http://i.imgur.com/T3Q4Ev4l.jpg[/img][/url]









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Location: Ohio, USA

Re: Building a Girder for my Honda Rebel 250

Post by Customize IT » Wed Sep 10, 2014 1:55 pm

Gary I have been making these just with the ride position at 11.5 in for the shock. and the full travel point not exceeding the 12.5 in 20 degree under link point. Which he still has the bearing preload and top jam nut to account for after the neck spindle unit is bolted together the print will be updated for this before the forks are made. This will bring the full travel position to 12.5 in easy. If he had not made his links before the print I could adjust their offset to make the center ride position right at 11.5 in.

The good news is the shock have pretty universal ends to them.'

So, have been using a trial method and just putting many different cheap jap bike shocks in until there is a action that will work.

He is unsure about doing a pin to pin link fixed shock like I build mine.

We may just fix the lower part of a 10in rebel shock and do a build up method off the top tree to make a mount with two 1/4 in plates to be able to adjust the top position for the shock. Then he can just change the distance that the top shock bolts on by making different mount plates to be welded to top tree and welding cutting them off until it is right.

I have also dismantled shocks and added a spacer made with lathe under spring to set the ride height also. We only really need 2 to 2.5 in of travel so a shock with 3 in travel this can be made to a length to set ride height pretty easy.

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Also I have checked and he has enough room to run a 3 in shock now but, the print shows a 2.5 in thick shock. Most off early 70 jap bikes I have found have been 2.5 to 2.75 in on the spring cover.
Last edited by Customize IT on Wed Sep 10, 2014 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
MAKE IT YOURS!!!

Altenative Energy Motorcycle
The owner is driven by:
BEER, BOURBON, WEED, & WOMEN

RIDE HARD, RIDE FAST,RIDE LOUD

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Customize IT
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Posts: 992
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 7:54 am
SELF INTRODUCTION: I am a young punk kid that needs some help building himself a chopper!!

I am sorry I only have a hotmail account???

Tell me what I need to do I need help with my girder!!!

PLESE HELP????


[url=http://imgur.com/8saXkqN][img]http://i.imgur.com/8saXkqNl.jpg[/img][/url]








[url=http://imgur.com/pXJZqQ0][img]http://i.imgur.com/pXJZqQ0l.jpg[/img][/url]









[url=http://imgur.com/T3Q4Ev4][img]http://i.imgur.com/T3Q4Ev4l.jpg[/img][/url]









[url=http://imgur.com/fsXGYQw][img]http://i.imgur.com/fsXGYQwl.jpg[/img][/url]
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: Building a Girder for my Honda Rebel 250

Post by Customize IT » Wed Sep 10, 2014 2:06 pm

I will stress this is his girder he is making all the parts either in house or being contracted out and leading the design process with what he wants it to be.

I am just trying to help the process.
MAKE IT YOURS!!!

Altenative Energy Motorcycle
The owner is driven by:
BEER, BOURBON, WEED, & WOMEN

RIDE HARD, RIDE FAST,RIDE LOUD

Swamprabbit1
Conventioneer
Posts: 212
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:34 am
SELF INTRODUCTION: I'm from Arkansas. Farm equipment mechanic. Love working on bikes with my 7yr old daughter. Single dad. Doing it all on my own. Good standing member over on the Honda rebel forum and TCU forum. My first chopper build was a Honda Rebel 250. Looking for a big brother to it. A Honda Rebel 450. I'm wanting to build a girder for the 250 and was told that this is the place to come for knowledge and help.

Re: Building a Girder for my Honda Rebel 250

Post by Swamprabbit1 » Wed Sep 10, 2014 3:24 pm

Thanks CustomizIT for all your help. I will be picking up the 3/4 steel for the tree's in the next couple days. Stem and bearings are ready. For the fitment process. Will still have to have the upper threads removed for the clamp.
Image
Through the Gates of Hell for a Wounded Marine.
Devil Doc

Swamprabbit1
Conventioneer
Posts: 212
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:34 am
SELF INTRODUCTION: I'm from Arkansas. Farm equipment mechanic. Love working on bikes with my 7yr old daughter. Single dad. Doing it all on my own. Good standing member over on the Honda rebel forum and TCU forum. My first chopper build was a Honda Rebel 250. Looking for a big brother to it. A Honda Rebel 450. I'm wanting to build a girder for the 250 and was told that this is the place to come for knowledge and help.

Re: Building a Girder for my Honda Rebel 250

Post by Swamprabbit1 » Wed Sep 10, 2014 7:31 pm

Learned a important lesson today about a digital angle meter. Neck angles are done off 90*. My digital angle meter will read off ground and off 90*. You have to pay close attention. Because it will switch back and forth without notice. Any way I had to get a mechanical angle gauge today. I was getting a reading of 47.10* which was off ground. It really was 42.90* off 90*.
So with the rake angle really being 42.90. The program has to be changed to read the correct rake angle and adjustments made.
I'm really like the CAD more and more. Could be cutting parts back apart and rewelding or totally wasted materials.
Through the Gates of Hell for a Wounded Marine.
Devil Doc

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Customize IT
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Posts: 992
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 7:54 am
SELF INTRODUCTION: I am a young punk kid that needs some help building himself a chopper!!

I am sorry I only have a hotmail account???

Tell me what I need to do I need help with my girder!!!

PLESE HELP????


[url=http://imgur.com/8saXkqN][img]http://i.imgur.com/8saXkqNl.jpg[/img][/url]








[url=http://imgur.com/pXJZqQ0][img]http://i.imgur.com/pXJZqQ0l.jpg[/img][/url]









[url=http://imgur.com/T3Q4Ev4][img]http://i.imgur.com/T3Q4Ev4l.jpg[/img][/url]









[url=http://imgur.com/fsXGYQw][img]http://i.imgur.com/fsXGYQwl.jpg[/img][/url]
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: Building a Girder for my Honda Rebel 250

Post by Customize IT » Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:07 pm

I am glad the angle came into question.

I have had this happen before and never trust digital gauges without checking with manual gauges that they are reading off a quadrant you want them to be measured from.

The digital gauges are more accurate so I will use the values given by them but, never without making sure they are reading from the direction you want them to be reading from.

In this case it was reading from a ground angle not the 90 degree angle that was wanted. The funny thing with them is you flip them around and it will read from the other direction.

Here are the new screen shots and this looks to be a right proper girder.

Trail goes from a 3.5 ride height to 3.7865 extended or compressed.

The total travel for forks is 3.2492

The shock distances are even better for the 12.5 in shock.

Ground height is 4.6246 when fully compressed.

There is enough room for a 2.7622 shock width at fully extended.

Image

Image

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MAKE IT YOURS!!!

Altenative Energy Motorcycle
The owner is driven by:
BEER, BOURBON, WEED, & WOMEN

RIDE HARD, RIDE FAST,RIDE LOUD

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