Dan's Knuckle build continued (10,000 ways to skin a cat)

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budoka
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SELF INTRODUCTION: I'm a Kentucky boy who's found himself transplanted into Japan. been into turning wrenches as long as i can remember. i love muscle cars, hotrod bikes, and the martial arts.

been a member of this board since back when it was a part of Chopperweb. been handling the tech side and sharing the admin duties for several years now.
Location: Fuefuki Shi, Japan
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Re: Dan's Knuckle build continued (10,000 ways to skin a cat

Post by budoka »

sure do man, if i ever get my head far enough above water i'll try to get them up on here. hope i never have to do something like that again, but if i ever find myself without access to the nice toys that i do now (and did before i moved here too) and in need of a front end, you can be sure i'll do what i need to, to get the job done. or then again, i may just call up Mark and cry, beg, and plead until he agrees to knock some plates out for me. :obscene-drinkingcheers: can you tell i'm jealous of his toys?

right now though, i'd just be happy if someone could finish a 30 second job that has so far taken a freakin' month! :angry-cussingblack: or maybe someone will just be real sweet and hand me about $500 so i can jus tbuy some new cylinders and not have to worry about whether the old ones are thick enough to handle another .010" over. sometimes caring about your friends sucks (long story, but if the place i asked to measure my cylinders wasn't the place my buddy uses for all his engine machine work, i would'a already told them to bite me and give me my darned cylinders back - can't measure the bore of a pair of cylinders in a months' time??? wtf???). really i'm just cranky 'cause i wanna ride my knuck.

enough venting.

-dan
-experience is a wonderful thing. It enables you to recognize a mistake when you make it again.
http://knuckleheadsummer.blogspot.com/
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railroad bob
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SELF INTRODUCTION: Hi Dan, thanks for your time and energy spent on this new board. I hope you will give me a waiver on the email account, I have used gmail so long I don't have a clue what my service provider account is.
I just returned home from a 2 week trip in New Mexico, have a few good pix, can't wait to share my off-highway traveling. Got to put 1400 miles on the scoot.

Best, Bob Davidson
Location: Alaska

Re: Dan's Knuckle build continued (10,000 ways to skin a cat

Post by railroad bob »

Dan, what a bummer, very sorry this happened.

And like everyone else, I appreciate the time you've spent setting this site up.

Hope you have your baby ticking like a fine tuned clock soon.
Alaska - Land of the Individual and Other Endangered Species
An Armed Society is a Polite Society,...
Politicians Prefer Unarmed Peasants
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Maz
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Re: Dan's Knuckle build continued (10,000 ways to skin a cat

Post by Maz »

Hope you get that Knuck back together and running sweet real soon Dan :pray:

Maz xx
Blonde, blue eyes, English Custom Bike builder and Biker Mistress!!!

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curt
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Location: utica new york

Re: Dan's Knuckle build continued (10,000 ways to skin a cat

Post by curt »

hey dan hows the bike coming havent herd from ya in a while
ever notice when you hit somethin or someone with a hammer you feel instantly better
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budoka
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SELF INTRODUCTION: I'm a Kentucky boy who's found himself transplanted into Japan. been into turning wrenches as long as i can remember. i love muscle cars, hotrod bikes, and the martial arts.

been a member of this board since back when it was a part of Chopperweb. been handling the tech side and sharing the admin duties for several years now.
Location: Fuefuki Shi, Japan
Contact:

Re: Dan's Knuckle build continued (10,000 ways to skin a cat

Post by budoka »

thanks for thinking about me, Curt. busier than a monkey screwing a football, but *finally* beginning to make some progress, maybe. i've got my flywheels out to a place for balancing, but they say it'll take a month because they are so backed up and they are gonna build a jig (i'm afraid of what that's gonna cost, but i want the wheels balanced right). after opening up the rocker covers, i decided to correct the geometry of the rocker arms. long story short (okay, maybe not quite as long at least), currently the intake valves are standard length, 2" Shovelhead intake valves, which means they are around 1/4" too long for the knucklehead, which means the pad on the rocker arm just barely contacts the end of the valve, which means the valve has to be being shoved sideways before it moves down - not good for longevity, and pretty much ensures a bent valve before long. anyway, after i saw how that was setup, i just couldn't leave it that way, but i've got some stuff in store for it. i'll be sure to post it as i make the changes so it may help someone else down the line.

also just found out that *finally* my cylinders have been assessed and it was decided that my cylinders had plenty of meat left to go another .010" oversize (even though i told them that from the beginning), so now i can finally order my pistons and have them sent to the company in the US that's gonna do some coatings on them for me (stay tuned for that, too). and i got my new Jims pinion shaft nut ordered (this bike has a 54-59 panhead style pinion shaft in it) because the old one chipped coming off. of course, it was "reordered" and will theoretically be in this coming week (luckily i ordered it well in advance of when i actually anticipate needing it). i'm replacing anything i need to with the best parts i can find, and NO chinese crap. i don't care if it takes me longer and costs me more (ok, the taking longer part sucks), i want to ride this bike a long time, and *knew* i should have torn into it from the beginning, but this time i want no excuses. i'm finding a lot of stuff that i just didn't like inside it, and am truly making it my own, inside and out. does that mean it won't have problems in the future? no. but i've had good luck so far with the stuff i've built my way.

i'm also making the necessary plates and jigs to do a proper pressure testing on the heads to ensure there are absolutely no leaks before it goes back together this time.

i've just got to say though, that this is a wild engine, that has taken some thought to wrap my head around, but i really believe that it will be a strong, dependable engine once it's all done.

lots been going on, but not much to show photos of. that should change soon though.

thanks for asking, man.

-dan
-experience is a wonderful thing. It enables you to recognize a mistake when you make it again.
http://knuckleheadsummer.blogspot.com/
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SELF INTRODUCTION: Just an Iowa country boy that has been pouring concrete for over 30 years. I have been around for awhile. I have watched 3 forums come and go. I built my first chop with the help of the great guys on this forum. I plan on building a few more. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ I don't have the 200 word in me this morning! 8)

Re: Dan's Knuckle build continued (10,000 ways to skin a cat

Post by concrete guy »

Well it sound like you are doing it right Dan. There is some good geometry threads going on over at ShovelheadUSA.

I am trying to do the same to the Pan finally. I am switching over to a 73 and later pinion shaft to convert to end oiling for my old girl along with 4 1/2" wheels.

Wishing you all the luck in the world Dan.

Scott
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Re: Dan's Knuckle build continued (10,000 ways to skin a cat

Post by gearhead1951 »

Another way to deal with a cylinder (or pair of cylinders) that are going to be hard to replace and are not capable of reboreing is to nicasil them , this is a chrome like coating that can be applied and built up enough (.020" or so) to let you just hone 'em and use 'em !!
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curt
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SELF INTRODUCTION: hi everyone its me from the old bord hopeing to see everyone come here and all the newcomers . lets make this as good as the old one or even better . lookin foreward to seeing everyones projects continue and ill be continueing mine too
Location: utica new york

Re: Dan's Knuckle build continued (10,000 ways to skin a cat

Post by curt »

i dont kno that much about japan but i hope its at least snowing over there so the down time isnt so bad . but i know i hate waiting on outside help too sure does sound like fun though except that its always so dam expensive to have fun
ever notice when you hit somethin or someone with a hammer you feel instantly better
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Just wanted to thank Dan and anyone else involved in getting this board up and running.
Dan is a personal friend of mine and one of the finest people I know. I have a world of respect for him, not just for his work here but also for reasons beyond this forum.
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Re: Dan's Knuckle build continued (10,000 ways to skin a cat

Post by Indian Mark »

budoka wrote: or then again, i may just call up Mark and cry, beg, and plead until he agrees to knock some plates out for me. :obscene-drinkingcheers: can you tell i'm jealous of his toys?


-dan
Just saw this for the first time. Anything for you man!! Just let me know what you need. The more detail the better.
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Re: Dan's Knuckle build continued (10,000 ways to skin a cat

Post by yona »

Dan, as you say, doing it your self, is a plus on quality.....Look at www.techlinecoatings.com and their engine coatings... I using them for years and they really have been awsome stuff. A lot of the coating for the inside of the engine are just rub on and buff.....you can't even measure the difference, but they really help with friction and heat. I even do my on piston skirts with a $20 toaster oven. I can get the stuff and send you a gift package if you want !

http://www.techlinecoatings.com/hi-perf ... efault.htm
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yona
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Location: Baja Georgia - St Johns River Inlet
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Re: Dan's Knuckle build continued (10,000 ways to skin a cat

Post by yona »

What type of test...? I just use a piece of plexi-glas, with hole a syringe and berette for measuring and colored alcohol....My guy does the valves and seats with a Serti machine and he puts the valve in the guide and pops it on the seat and if it rings, it good. i like to check , but he has never been wrong. He has been running a nitro knuckle/pan for 30 years....a valve leak with nitro, makes the heads look as if worms eat them up !
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railroad bob
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SELF INTRODUCTION: Hi Dan, thanks for your time and energy spent on this new board. I hope you will give me a waiver on the email account, I have used gmail so long I don't have a clue what my service provider account is.
I just returned home from a 2 week trip in New Mexico, have a few good pix, can't wait to share my off-highway traveling. Got to put 1400 miles on the scoot.

Best, Bob Davidson
Location: Alaska

Re: Dan's Knuckle build continued (10,000 ways to skin a cat

Post by railroad bob »

gearhead1951 wrote:Another way to deal with a cylinder (or pair of cylinders) that are going to be hard to replace and are not capable of reboreing is to nicasil them , this is a chrome like coating that can be applied and built up enough (.020" or so) to let you just hone 'em and use 'em !!
Maybe this could go into the tips section????
Alaska - Land of the Individual and Other Endangered Species
An Armed Society is a Polite Society,...
Politicians Prefer Unarmed Peasants
TANSTAAFL
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curt
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SELF INTRODUCTION: hi everyone its me from the old bord hopeing to see everyone come here and all the newcomers . lets make this as good as the old one or even better . lookin foreward to seeing everyones projects continue and ill be continueing mine too
Location: utica new york

Re: Dan's Knuckle build continued (10,000 ways to skin a cat

Post by curt »

been getting warm over here so was thinking bout ya hope the knuck is going back together well
ever notice when you hit somethin or someone with a hammer you feel instantly better
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budoka
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SELF INTRODUCTION: I'm a Kentucky boy who's found himself transplanted into Japan. been into turning wrenches as long as i can remember. i love muscle cars, hotrod bikes, and the martial arts.

been a member of this board since back when it was a part of Chopperweb. been handling the tech side and sharing the admin duties for several years now.
Location: Fuefuki Shi, Japan
Contact:

Re: Dan's Knuckle build continued (10,000 ways to skin a cat

Post by budoka »

Yona, i feel like such an idiot. here i am , busting my balls to make this pressure testing system outta steel, and then i read your post. why not plexiglass? absolutely no reason in the world except ignorance on my part. man i wish i had thought of that. oh well, maybe someone else will read my mistake and learn a bit. thank you yet again for sharing your knowledge, oniisan.

Curt, buddy, i don't know what to say, except that i'm pissed off, stressed out, depressed, and angry beyond belief, and if there weren't true friends involved i woulda already told all involved to go **ck themselves and give me my parts back, and i'll do it all myself, like i knew i should do in the first place. at first i just asked the machine shop my buddy uses to look at the cylinders and see if they could be honed or needed to be bored, and then they suggested that i let them disassemble and inspect the crank assembly just to make sure it was all ok (which i was ok with since i want this thing to be bullet proof when it goes back together), and then they wanted to send the flywheels to another race shop to balance them (which i agreed to, against my better judgement, at the urging of my buddy who agreed to offset the cost because he wanted to maybe use this place in the future for his own race engine builds). long story longer, they're supposedly building a jig to dynamically balance the flywheels, etc, etc, and supposedly this place will go to no end to do it right, no matter what they have to make, blah, blah, blah. and i don't even know how this machine shop is supposed to know the right amount of free play to have in the connecting rods. i mean, i know the guy was an engine builder on the Toyota race team, and he built a mean Sporty engine for my buddy for his drag bike, but somehow i just have this sinking feeling deep in my gut that when and if the complete crank assembly ever comes back to me (minus the $700 or so it'll cost me) that it'll be way outta spec, and i'll end up having to redo the whole friggin' thing myself anyway. no crap, i seriously couldn't sleep last night for worrying about it.

did i mention i'm worried? these are UL flywheels that have been machined to accept a 47 FL crank pin. pretty difficult, and pricey, to replace at best. i'm just really hoping that they come back usable. i swear, if i ever get my parts back in my hands, i'll be damned if i EVER let anyone else have them again. i'll learn whatever i have to learn, and do whatever i have to do in order to be able to fix them myself (i KNEW to do this anyway through prior experience).

add into that the fact that i can't even get a freakin' set of cast pistons (.020" over for an 80" shovelhead) without a 6-8 week (maybe) wait while they get enough orders together to justify casting a bunch of them (what kinda BS is that???), and it's looking like the only thing i'll be riding this year is my Suzuki DR250 dirt/trail bike.

anyway, hang around long enough and i'll cry you a river. i'll either fix this bike and ride the hell out of it or die in the attempt.

i had hoped to get a series of articles together for Gary's new magazine about the process of getting an old race engine knuck together, and what i've found inside it, but considering the fact that that i can't even make one step of forward progress kinda negates that idea.

sorry for all the negativity, but that's the reality of what's up. have no doubt though, i WILL se this thing back on the road with me on it, though.

hope your projects are going better my friend.

-dan

ps, Scott, did you mention that you're in the process of figuring out flywheel balancing? let's start a discussion thread on it. i need to learn some.
-experience is a wonderful thing. It enables you to recognize a mistake when you make it again.
http://knuckleheadsummer.blogspot.com/
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yona
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SELF INTRODUCTION: Automotive weldor and fabricator for 45 years, like to dip in to both pools............make hand-tooled leather covered seats and bags.................jack of all trades........................63 years old......live in Baja Georgia, on the coast...former military
Location: Baja Georgia - St Johns River Inlet
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Re: Dan's Knuckle build continued (10,000 ways to skin a cat

Post by yona »

That's what we are about anyway...DIY....I wanted to make a set of the leafer legs that Pete Martin helped me design....No one would help , tell me if they will work , or they wanted my next 3 kids....and I been fixed...!!!! I have deciced ot build a CNC router a big heavy bitch, using 12" I-beam for the X axis, 3x6" 8020 for the Y and Z will be a mix of 1 inch 6061 plate and 8020....will be 4'x8' base ... I tried to register with CNC Zone , used both user names and both email addresses and I find out that my provider is blocking their site and i can't figure out what to do..... my son is rapidly learning CAD and will take a course in how to set the machine up and program....I need feed back for the site to not make costly mistakes, as cost can really climb....so I can understand how frustrating it can be, to be at someone elses beck and call. I ahve to pieces of about 3/4" plexi-glass to can be drilled or tapped for fittings to pressurize or use to check volume....if the alcohol leaks thru(thinner and wetter than water) the valves are not seated...After having had one Serti valve job , would never use stones to cut seats again ... hope thing get better soon for you !
I.D.G.A.F.H.T.D.I.A.O.C.C.
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